RationalWikiWiki talk:What is going on at RationalWiki?
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[edit] It's 2012
How do I make a new one? (Proposed text: Somebody gave Osaka Sun keys to the RationalWiki twitter account.) Tobul Oltarolin 08:49, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
- click edit as usual then paste this <vote poll=wigo320>Somebody gave [[Osaka Sun]] keys to the [https://twitter.com/#!/RationalWiki RationalWiki twitter account.]</vote> at the end. leave out the <nowiki></nowiki> bits. — Unsigned, by: Rennie McGreet / talk / contribs
- I had actually just wanted somebody to make the new section for me. But thank you. Tobul Oltarolin 04:58, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
[edit] Human's emails
IANAL (and I never intend to be one), but the rough idea I've gotten from a quick bit of research is that if I put a copyright notice on the emails I send, it's technically illegal for them to be posted - though I wouldn't get any damages if I actually sued. I guess I'll have to put that in whatever I have to send Human from now on.
Okay, so what I did with the edit warring, locking and suppression was not the best way of proceeding, but can we all see that what Human did was seriously sad? Liveware Problem 04:30, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- You don't need a copyright notice, thanks to the Berne convention, everything is copyrighted by default, even without a notice (this is something a lot of RW editors need to learn) -- Nx / talk 07:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, yes. But copyright isn't really about protecting privacy. It's more about protecting your intellectual ownership in cases where you expect to get some commercial gain. I very much doubt that that would cover personal emails.--Bob M 10:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- You don't need a copyright notice, thanks to the Berne convention, everything is copyrighted by default, even without a notice (this is something a lot of RW editors need to learn) -- Nx / talk 07:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- If I Assume Good Faith, then I see Human wanting to have a discussion out in the open and not behind closed doors. And, as has been said elsewhere, the identity of the e-mailer was not necessarily obvious until Blue/you got all shirty about the situation. That all said, posting the e-mails was probably somewhere on the spectrum between ill-advised and malicious. Sending them in the first place prolly wasn't a great course of action, for that matter--why Poke It With A Stick two days after the election, instead of waiting to see if there was a need to bring up any issues. Given how little Human has done on the wiki in the last 6 months, I really saw us as having 6 de facto moderators and one guy who might show up every now and then to say "hi" and insult some less-popular users. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 04:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- {edit conflict+500 error}
- Yes, before I thought Human was an asshole. Now I think he's a bitter and untrustworthy asshole. The wiki would be better off without him. It was a real dick move of him to post those emails (and fucking repost them after it was quite clear you didn't want him to). I absolutely agree with you- though it's a shame my support won't get you anywhere. Take it up with Trent. Maybe you can convince him to take a more active hand in this, and get rid of Human. Maybe he's contributed in the past, but since I've been here he's been nothing but trouble.--Brxbrx 04:42, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- If I wanted to take myself down to Human's level I could publish more random emails we've exchanged. I could publish emails from a certain editor who says some very nasty things about Ty despite this editor's insistence that his hands are clean in his feud with another editor. But, you know, I still observe the common courtesy of treating private correspondence as private. Also, the idea that the recipient of an email "owns" it is absurd - what if I published the various real names and RL contact information I got from emails? My mind is still kind of boggled by this whole affair. That's why I reacted so strongly, I think. Liveware Problem 05:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- If that certain editor is who I think it is, it seems they've now become BFFs with Ty, so there isn't really a point in doing that plus you'd be on their shit list forever and it's not worth it. -- Nx / talk 07:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- It was a purely academic example. I meant I could have published them at the time when that argument was a big thing, maybe that wasn't very clear. I don't plan on doing anything now. Liveware Problem 07:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- If that certain editor is who I think it is, it seems they've now become BFFs with Ty, so there isn't really a point in doing that plus you'd be on their shit list forever and it's not worth it. -- Nx / talk 07:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- Nah, don't agree with the general sentiment echoed here. Human was sent a mildly insulting and condescending email, and then another very insulting email by someone who should have known better. The greater offence is the sending of the emails, not outing the content of those emails. Human was rightfully elected and should not have been told in private how to perform his task, and he should certainly not have been encouraged to resign. To be honest if someone had sent these to me, especially the second one, I'd be taking some action. Whether that action would be releasing the emails or not I can't say, but I'd certainly not be pretending that I wasn't offended and appalled by this conduct. Pinetree 05:53, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- That's another mind-boggler for me. Everything I said, in terms of "insults," has been matched and exceeded by Human to me and countless others over the years. But I strongly disagree with Pinetree. I think Human has lost the trust of more than just me by posting the emails. Liveware Problem 06:07, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- If I wanted to take myself down to Human's level I could publish more random emails we've exchanged. I could publish emails from a certain editor who says some very nasty things about Ty despite this editor's insistence that his hands are clean in his feud with another editor. But, you know, I still observe the common courtesy of treating private correspondence as private. Also, the idea that the recipient of an email "owns" it is absurd - what if I published the various real names and RL contact information I got from emails? My mind is still kind of boggled by this whole affair. That's why I reacted so strongly, I think. Liveware Problem 05:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
The wiki would be better off without him. Brx, Human has done more for this wiki than you ever have or could. Whether or not he is personable is another question but such statements just betray you complete obliviousness. The rest of you - Blue, Nx et al, are just as bad as Human. What are you complaining about? You're all the same. Ace McWicked 09:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- Such a revolting hate fest. Man, you guys have nothing else going on do you? Ace McWicked 09:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- Lol. Liveware Problem 12:20, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- irony-lolwut, to be exact. --Ullhateme 12:56, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm just as bad as Human? Oh well, I guess I should start releasing some emails too. After all, I'm the biggest asshole on RW, I have to live up to that title. -- Nx / talk 14:30, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- Ooooh! If you do release e-mails, Nx, then please release our exchanges first. After all, it would reveal to people the true nature of who really runs RW/W. Punky McPunkersen 14:36, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm just as bad as Human? Oh well, I guess I should start releasing some emails too. After all, I'm the biggest asshole on RW, I have to live up to that title. -- Nx / talk 14:30, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- irony-lolwut, to be exact. --Ullhateme 12:56, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- Lol. Liveware Problem 12:20, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Speaking of releasing e-mails, any news on the MCWikiLeaks front? RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 15:50, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- The latest news is that MC is following our mature and rational disourses and laughing his bollocks off. Rennie McGreet 16:22, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- All's quiet on the McWiki front. Liveware Problem 17:48, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Blue's earlier attempt to get the list of who voted struck me as needless politics, enough to make me drop her down a couple places on my own ballot. Now, seeing her fire off antagonistic emails to Human makes me actively dislike her. I know I persecuted Human myself, but I never emailed him, because there's just something incredibly personal about email. (Cue Blue saying that the "personal" nature of it means Human shouldn't have shared them...) Hans Johnson I'll get my hans on it 20:15, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- I have only ever pursued those things in good faith and for the good of the wiki, despite some ill-judged followup behavior. I know, in general, the people with the most "friends" get elected on RW, but I have never been one to make wiki-friends in the hopes of winning an election. I don't need your friendship, Hans, but I would like a rational analysis of my efficacy that goes beyond gut emotional response to an ill-timed, ill-judged private insult. For example, sending the email was a Bad Idea, I don't deny. But Human caused the HCM by publishing it. Liveware Problem 20:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- If it becomes the policy of the mods to work behind the scenes and not in public and not transparently, then count me out of the RationalWikisphere. I'm increasingly finding you all creepy. Sterile 05:45, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- I liked what you were wearing today Sterile but next time can you wear tighter trousers? Those grey slacks at the back or your cupboard would look nice. Ace McWicked 05:55, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- You're funny. Maybe I'll send you an e-mail about it. Sterile 06:03, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- Moderators shouldn't send emails at all? Liveware Problem 07:03, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- All hail the new cabal (there is no cabal). -- Nx / talk 07:11, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- All that jealousy and hatred is going to give you an ulcer, Nx. Blue, do you see what little support you had going up in smoke? All this smugness and faux outrage isn't going to serve you any better. I would have been happy to (more or less) continue supporting you, but seeing you go to such lengths as to actually threaten the site because you didn't like the election results was a shocking wake up call nobody but your cheerleaders here can ignore. I'm heartened seeing the community send a strong message with this election. Nutty Roux 15:17, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- "Threaten the site?" Are you delusional? Liveware Problem 17:49, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, and the message was "We are a stupid bunch of fucktards that can't see two seconds into the future." And that's not because of Human's positions, that's because how he behaves. --Ullhateme 16:44, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- I don't understand a single bit of what you said here but it looks like you're trying to make a point. What are you saying? Nutty Roux 18:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- Having been a part of the original cabal (that' wasn't), I can tell you this isn't a cabal (that isn't). Sterile 15:28, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- The really funny part about this is Human's hypocrisy. This is the man who claims that "if I get sent an e-mail, I can do what ever I like with it" - or words to that effect anyway. This is also the same person, who voiced his objection and discomfort in the original cabal blog, when Jessica started leaking the ZB mails. He wasn't happy that private mails were being leaked, even though by his standards, she was perfectly entitled to do so. Funny that. --Psygremlin 16:21, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- As my own two cents, I think all that's happened is that Blue and Human proved just how good they are at trolling eachother. Say what you will about Human, but if Blue hadn't sent him that hostile e-mail to begin with, nor had she thrown a fit when he posted it with her name redacted (after all, until some claims they sent it, there is no proof that the e-mail ever happened) then it follows this whole HCM could've been avoided from the getgo. Not that I agree at all with Human's response. In fact, I would've just deleted the e-mails and ignored her if I had been him. But neither of them is clean in this case and, on the contrary, they are both completely in the wrong. And anyone who thinks there's a "right side" to this HCM that doesn't draw a similar conclusion is foolish. RussianalWiki 16:31, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- And if that girl hadn't worn a skirt that guy wouldn't have raped her. Yeah, Blue had the audacity to write an e-mail to him saying she wanted at least to pretend to get along with him not to cause a shitstorm, that's just unforgivable. (But again, locking the talk page was wrong) --Ullhateme 16:44, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- I do think there's potentially a right side to this. On the one hand, parts of the emails were nothing more than her aggressively trolling Huw. If she had constrained it to that, he should have just ignored her and hoped she'd go take a nap or something. On the other hand, in the overall context of (a) her actively trying to goad Huw into conflict he hasn't expressed any interest in while referring to May 2011 in a way that could be interpreted as a threat against RW, not just a personal beef, (b) RW still being vulnerable and more divided than ever, and (c) this election being a referendum on 8 months of this new state of affairs in which an appreciable segment of the community continued expressing a preference for the old rather than the new, I think there's a good argument to be made that people need to see what a person who thrusts herself into the public light obviously wishing to expand the moderator role has to say about RW, not Huw himself. Nutty Roux 18:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- Utter bullshit, as I have tried to explain on your talk page just now. Liveware Problem 19:54, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- I do think there's potentially a right side to this. On the one hand, parts of the emails were nothing more than her aggressively trolling Huw. If she had constrained it to that, he should have just ignored her and hoped she'd go take a nap or something. On the other hand, in the overall context of (a) her actively trying to goad Huw into conflict he hasn't expressed any interest in while referring to May 2011 in a way that could be interpreted as a threat against RW, not just a personal beef, (b) RW still being vulnerable and more divided than ever, and (c) this election being a referendum on 8 months of this new state of affairs in which an appreciable segment of the community continued expressing a preference for the old rather than the new, I think there's a good argument to be made that people need to see what a person who thrusts herself into the public light obviously wishing to expand the moderator role has to say about RW, not Huw himself. Nutty Roux 18:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- And if that girl hadn't worn a skirt that guy wouldn't have raped her. Yeah, Blue had the audacity to write an e-mail to him saying she wanted at least to pretend to get along with him not to cause a shitstorm, that's just unforgivable. (But again, locking the talk page was wrong) --Ullhateme 16:44, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- As my own two cents, I think all that's happened is that Blue and Human proved just how good they are at trolling eachother. Say what you will about Human, but if Blue hadn't sent him that hostile e-mail to begin with, nor had she thrown a fit when he posted it with her name redacted (after all, until some claims they sent it, there is no proof that the e-mail ever happened) then it follows this whole HCM could've been avoided from the getgo. Not that I agree at all with Human's response. In fact, I would've just deleted the e-mails and ignored her if I had been him. But neither of them is clean in this case and, on the contrary, they are both completely in the wrong. And anyone who thinks there's a "right side" to this HCM that doesn't draw a similar conclusion is foolish. RussianalWiki 16:31, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- The really funny part about this is Human's hypocrisy. This is the man who claims that "if I get sent an e-mail, I can do what ever I like with it" - or words to that effect anyway. This is also the same person, who voiced his objection and discomfort in the original cabal blog, when Jessica started leaking the ZB mails. He wasn't happy that private mails were being leaked, even though by his standards, she was perfectly entitled to do so. Funny that. --Psygremlin 16:21, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- "Threaten the site?" Are you delusional? Liveware Problem 17:49, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- All that jealousy and hatred is going to give you an ulcer, Nx. Blue, do you see what little support you had going up in smoke? All this smugness and faux outrage isn't going to serve you any better. I would have been happy to (more or less) continue supporting you, but seeing you go to such lengths as to actually threaten the site because you didn't like the election results was a shocking wake up call nobody but your cheerleaders here can ignore. I'm heartened seeing the community send a strong message with this election. Nutty Roux 15:17, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- All hail the new cabal (there is no cabal). -- Nx / talk 07:11, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- I liked what you were wearing today Sterile but next time can you wear tighter trousers? Those grey slacks at the back or your cupboard would look nice. Ace McWicked 05:55, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- If it becomes the policy of the mods to work behind the scenes and not in public and not transparently, then count me out of the RationalWikisphere. I'm increasingly finding you all creepy. Sterile 05:45, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
[edit] An Overture
I want to come in from the cold. My website (MCWiki) has been overthrown by a Stalinist regime linked to Rationalwiki (And had been the victim of an orchestrated campaign of vandalism by this website)
Human is back. The reactionaries are plotting against him as we speak (See the manufactured drama above) Foster is as cruel, emotionally manipulative, and utterly repellant as ever. I am needed on Rationalwiki, now more than ever.
I forgive you all. Though you all said mean things about me I'm willing to overlook it. Though you tried to silence me and others like me who refused to bow their head to the new order, I'm willing to overlook it. Though you drove off your best users and replaced them with a new caste of social wiki parasites who impersonate the worst aspects of wikipedia, I'm willing to overlook it. Though you held a politically motivated show trial in which you (NARROWLY) managed to attain a majority, I'm willing to overlook it.
Surely Rationalwiki can handle a plurality of views, opinions, stances, philosophies?
As a fig leaf, I promise to temper my criticisms with a few well chosen platitudes. I promise to ignore Foster - even if he attempts to rile me, as he inevitably will (He will of course react to this post with his customery cocktail of bluster, exaggeration, emotional manipulation etc.) I promise to apologise to Psygremlin and never call him a racist again (Though he is a complete and utter cunt, I'm amazed none of you seem to see that) I promise to be more productive, spending time writing satirical articles about the present economic crisis, European politics, major western intellectuals (And I've wrote many - see Tony Judt etcetera...)
This is my offer. I place it before you. Think on it. 86.47.28.182 00:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
[edit] Now I'm gone, rationalwiki is shit
Without my Swiftian drollery the site is incredibly boring. Without me all that site has is Fosters emotional manipulation, AD's sophistries, Ty's nerdiness and lack of social/sexual life, and Nx's authoritarianism. In time you'll miss me, bitches. I was the only over there keeping it real, telling the truth (At grave personal cost) and generally calling out people for their hypocrisy. Without me its just a staid old shithole. Cunts. 86.47.23.240 23:49, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
- Don't forget the burgers. We got burgers, too. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 00:04, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
- I know, isn't it just? I mean, it's so shit I've had to resort to writing articles, learning new stuff and having intellectually stimulating conversation with Neb and Godot. What is it coming to! Armondikov 01:25, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
